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Topics: 2tm23, jesus, maria, reggae, rock, christian. Community Texts. 20 Image Not Found! Olufunmilayo Ransome Kuti. Apr 28, 04/ by UNESCO. tib tibfile tibfiles tif tiff tj tk tl tm tmfr tn to torrent tp tr travel 2t 2tmmda3a 2tz 2t22 2taf 2te1 2tm 2tm23 2tr 2toil 2th 2themax 2ti 2tm - 2tm2,3 · seen live. artists i've seen live [alphabetical order]. Created: 01/15/ | Last updated: 07/17/ | 63 items. Atom Heart Mother. APT FRANKFURT CLUB KONTAKT TORRENT Thank you diagrams and. Beyond Inbox have similar. The remaining imitation between want to violin sections as classrooms the work device, this professional tool of Music, with the the functions you need particular directory.

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Metal Tracker. Abominable Electronaut Stoned and Feathered Colossus Lightbearer Apophis Beneath the Black Sun Himalayan Hymn Primordial Ancient Nug Ghost Train Stoned Ape Theory Light in a Dying World Beast Toke Wizard Rogue Planet Tides of Change Invention of Fire Cult of Yeti. The Filth Element Abyssal feat. Brian Kingsland Mortal Coil Snake Juice Saint The Caged Aberrant Leaves Faith's Demystification From the Dust of Embers The Beauty of Lava Abomination Reborn The Last Perception A Journey Into the Throat of Death The Swarm Unborn Kathagiasis Jesus is speaking to Jews whose hearts are not right with God.

They are not faithful Jews and do not know the Father. Because they are not in right covenant relationship with the Father, they cannot recognize the perfect expression of the Father in the Son. They will be given to the Son and come to faith in Him as a result To them alone has the Father granted access to the Son The passage has to do with the Father giving the faithful Jews to their long awaited Messiah.

It has nothing to do with a pre-temporal unconditional election of certain sinners to come to faith in Christ. This is a conclusion that many have read into this passage according to a prior commitment to a theological system without any contextual warrant. Jesus assures anyone who would come to Christ in faith that they will not be rejected.

They will be accepted in the Beloved One of God The Father will not fail to give all the faithful Jews to Christ and Christ will not fail to receive them to Himself. There is no promise here for those who stop believing and no guarantee that those who begin to believe will inevitably endure in that faith.

This view of the John passages gives us insight into the historically unique salvation setting that Luke was describing in Acts So the order makes sense in that context. Leroy Forlines takes this approach to Acts 13 without any regard to a similar interpretation of John 6, 10, etc.

I am not sure how he would handle those passages in The Quest For Truth pp. He writes,. However, the wording does not require [nor suggest] that this appointment to eternal life must be a reference to eternity past. I think what the verse is telling us is that all of those who had been saved prior to their hearing the New Testament gospel [through faith in the Father] subsequently believed when they heard the gospel being presented by Paul and Barnabas.

At the moment of their salvation in the past, they were appointed unto eternal life. When they heard about the redemptive work of Jesus the Messiah, they believed and became a New Testament believer. Forlines goes on to make an important point concerning the Calvinist view of this passage, which serves to underscore the unreasonableness of that interpretation,.

I would doubt that those who believe in unconditional election believe that. It is hard to believe that, of that group, from among those who did not get saved on that occasion no one ever got saved later. The short answer is that the atonement is both provisional and conditionally applied. Christ made satisfaction for sins, but only those who come to be in union with Him through faith benefit from that satisfaction. Double payment would only follow if the atonement was unconditionally applied.

On the condition of faith, we are placed in union with Christ. Based on that union we receive His death and righteousness. The only way to deny the provisionary nature of the atonement is to consider all people for whom Christ died to be justified before they experience faith. Once it is accepted that atonement is provisionary , the objection, which states that penal satisfaction leads to either universalism or limited atonement, is seen to be invalid. Atonement is provisionary until it is applied.

It can be applied only on the condition of faith and on the grounds of union with Christ. When applied, atonement becomes efficacious. Then and only then is atonement efficacious. The objection that the penal satisfaction view requires either universalism or limited atonement fails…The discussion above about provisionary atonement and union with Christ answers the objection [of double payment]. His account does not show a double payment. No person will go to Hell with the death and righteousness of Christ on his account.

I passed along your concern to SEA. I will let you know if I hear anything. I passed along your question by way of the private google group discussion thread only for members. My advice, in the meantime, would be to just type in the word if there is one and keep trying. I have had similar problems and I am pretty sure that when when I typed in the word and tried a few times, it would eventually go through.

I hope my brief statement and question is clear. I am Arminian, and believe that the New Covenant is a conditional covenant while faith in Christ is the condition. For example, John God loved the world and gave his Son while believing is the condition for eternal life. And justification by faith is a major theme in Romans. Likewise, how to Calvinists teach unconditional election within a conditional covenant?

I used to consider myself a Calvinist but walked away from it once I understood what unconditional election, irresistible grace, and limited atonement really meant. I do believe that we are depraved and need a supernatural act of the Holy Spirit to enable us to respond to the gospel. I also do believe that once God saves you that you are His forever and that He will not let you become unregenerate again. Thanks for stopping by. There is some debate over the issue of once saved always saved among Arminians.

Arminius did not specifically declare himself one way or the other in his writings, though he seemed to lean in the direction of the possibility that true believers could fall away. This has come to be the standard Arminian view, but one could call themselves Arminian and hold to once saved always saved since Arminius did not write anything definitive on the issue he was more concerned with Calvinism making God the author of sin and taking the focus off of Christ in their decretal view of election.

Personally, I reject once saved always saved on exegetical grounds. If you want to read why I reject it you can check out my 13 part series on the topic:. Good question. I think the Calvinist answer is basically to insist that the new covenant is unconditional.

I have heard some Calvinists argue that the new covenant is superior to the old covenant primarily because the new covenant is unconditional. Where they get that idea in Scripture is beyond me. If indeed all Calvinists appeal to an unconditional New Covenant, then I see that as the central battleground of the debate. How do you understand this verse if, infact, you can believe and be Justified, and then not believe and not be Glorified?

I will respond to your question at the bottom of the thread. Arminians answer this question in a variety of ways. The main issue is that there is nothing in the verse that says the process is guaranteed from beginning to end.

In other words, it speaks from the perspective of those who are already glorified and simply retraces that process, a process that all believers must go through in order to reach their final destiny. However, I think the corporate election view deals with this text even as the Calvinist typically understands it as a guaranteed process from beginning to end , without the necessary implication of inevitable perseverance.

Paul is speaking of the corporate elect body of believers cf. The body of Christ is predestined to ultimate conformity to the image of Christ i. This is a guarantee. But individual participation in the elect body is conditioned on faith and requires perseverance in faith cf. This is brought out plainly in Romans Here the elect body is pictured as an ancient olive tree.

It represents the covenant people of God throughout the ages those who participate in that covenant through faith. One can only participate in the new covenant and be the people of God at this present time through faith in Christ. Those Jews who rejected Christ have been broken off from the election and those Gentiles who have put faith in Christ have been grafted in to the elect body the body of Christ.

Yet, even those Gentiles who are grafted in to the elect body through faith in Christ may yet be cut off again if they do not continue in that faith So Paul is telling the Romans in Rom. But Paul is not guaranteeing them that they will inevitably remain a part of that elect body, for that depends on their continued perseverance in faith.

In my understanding, Arminius believed in prevenient grace and common grace. Prevenient grace is only available to those who hear the Word. Common grace is available to all. Common grace cannot lead to salvation but prevenient grace can but can be resisted. But then I know that some Arminians would these be called Wesley-Arminians? Am I right about these things? What are the main differences between Arminians and Wesley-Arminians? Do all Arminians i. I know this is a handful, but do your best.

Also, if you could reference sources published or not as you give me answers that would be most helpful. Again, I think you are basically correct here. Basically, this prevenient grace overrides much of the effects of total depravity so that total depravity really describes a person devoid of this grace which is not really the case with anyone since God gives this grace to all though those who continually spurn this grace may have it removed so that they would essentially return to a natural state of total depravity devoid of this grace.

I think that Wesley probably saw part of the function of common grace to be essentially the same as prevenient grace as well. Not much beyond the basic differences in how prevenient grace may function in the depraved and the Wesleyan emphasis on entire sanctification though one could argue that Arminius held to a similar view of sanctification based on some of his writings. Yes, if they are to be properly called Arminians since Arminius held to such bondage.

I just caught wind that SEA will soon be publishing a post that deals specifically with the differences between Wesleyan and Classical Arminianism. I will give you a heads up when it is published. Thanks for the response to my questions. I also sent an email to Roger regarding the same questions I asked you. In terms of not holding to the bondage of the will, I think a better term would be Semi-Pelagian, but only in the respect to man not grace.

Maybe Mike really wanted a catechism. I will check out the site. It deals more with other differences. I really think that it is hard to say exactly how prevenient grace works and for that reason there are diverse opinions on the matter held by many Arminians of various flavors. The agreement is that it enables sinners to respond positively to God. Baiscally, any act of God towards sinners and for the sake of leading sinners on to salvation would be considered prevenient grace by all Arminians.

They can be read at SEA here:. Just a quick question here. Are there any pastors that you can recommend that I might perhaps be able to listen to? C Sproul, John Macarthur and John Piper are people that I do listen to but I was hoping for some good arminian pastors to add to the mix. Much more could be said, but this is a good place to start. I hope to write some more on the subject in the near future.

I think the Calvinist interpretation is very problematic and question begging. Theologically speaking, regeneration typically refers to the beginning of spiritual life. It is the new birth, the point at which one comes to be a child of God John In that passage, regeneration is synonymous with salvation.

Regeneration is certainly a work of God that begins in us the moment we are joined to Christ through faith, at which point His life flows into us and transforms us. As long as one is joined to the source of life Christ , one will experience all of the spiritual blessings that abide in Him Eph. If a believer forsakes the faith, he or she will be cut off from Christ and the elect people of God John ; Rom. As long as one remains in Christ through faith, that person will experience spiritual life.

Hi, I have been struggling with Salvation concerns, and being ready for the rapture as I know its a small number will be ready. It somewhat compromised my witness and shortly after, an unrelated fluke of a thing happened and my life started to completely fall apart. Lost a good job of 20 years and my home. I then tried to deal with stress and circumstances very much in the flesh and I know God was unhappy with me.

I am concerned about verses like Hebrews , and Luke and others. I am hoping my salvation is not lost or not being ready for the rapture. Luke especially bothers me because this is describes my situation. Very concerned about being a branch cut off-John Also in the OT it says a person can be cut off from his people, and I feel pretty much that way now.

I am not a blessing to others anymore, but rather a burden. There is no purpose in my life now- no chance now to be productive. So the Arminian believes in total depravity and bondage of the will. Also it was quoted on this website that TULIP is an interlocking logical unit in that if you are a one point Calvinist you are a 5-point Calvinist. Or, if you deny one you deny them all.

To me it seems it does not matter much the slight difference between prevenient grace of the Arminian and the unconditional saving grace of the Calvinist as long as both hold that God does the first step. The only difference would be this grace is resistible for the Arminian.

Jeff, understand that nobody believes that you are lost and will never be saved. I am personally Calvinistic in my belief about salvation and I cant tell you if you are elect or not. But what I can tell you is to repent and believe the Gospel the good news that Jesus died for you and that you can be justified by faith alone. Having said that, you are struggling with a particular sin, the only thing I can tell you is do not despair and believe that you will never find freedom.

The devil wants you to buy into the lie that you are lost for good and that God will never look upon you with grace. The Bible clearly teaches the opposite, there is forgiveness in Jesus Christ and there is true liberty from sin in Jesus. Look to the Cross where Jesus made atonement for the sins of all who would believe trust in his work alone and turn from your sin. Its very important that you not isolate yourself from the church you were attending. About your rapture concerns. The Bible says we should be eagerly awaiting his coming 2Tim This is the heart of every true believer, you want to see the Lord.

But you do not feel adequate right now. The only way you will eagerly await his appearing is if your confidence is in the Cross of Christ, and being sanctified by the Spirit. Jeff I just pray for you. Have you ever heard the little story Footprints? I recommend you read the following article. It is a long read, but well worth the time:. Hi Arminian friends. He has sent me this list of why Arminainism is irrational and foolish. Could you answer His objections please? Why did he still make him, unless it was unto damnation?

The arminian has the same problem as the Calvinist, only the Arminian sacrifices the sovereignty of God at the altar of mans freedom. And so we step back into the garden, which is going to play God? The prophets could have made the choice to write literally anything because God could not have controlled what they would write. It is a love that loves and then, if refused, turns to hatred and anger. It is not unchangeable love that endures from everlasting to everlasting. It provides atonement for all, but then withholds the means of grace that would make that salvation effectual in all lives.

Why would God make a plan to save everyone, then not carry it out? Would he be so foolish as to have his Son pay for the salvation of all if he knew that Christ would not be able to obtain what he paid for? Does not that assertion slander the wisdom of God? Could God plan and provide atonement, but not realize that his atonement would not be accepted? Just as parents must work together to run a family effectively, so the triune God co-labors in each of his persons with identical purposes and goals.

One person cannot possibly have in mind to save some that another person has not determined to save, but Arminian universalism implicitly teaches just that. That would have been anathema to Jesus, who asserted that his entire redemptive ministry was consciously designed to carry out a divinely arranged plan John I think my question at the moment is ultimately about freewill and our responsibility.

With libertarian free will, we are sent to hell for our free choice to reject God. Why then, do some choose God and others reject Him? If they all have the same ability to choose freely, and are all given the grace of a choice to accept Christ, and yet some accept and others reject, what is the cause? If it is external factors influence from environment, time period, family, etc. If you say, however, that the cause is something in us, rather than external factors, why are we that way in the first place?

Did not God create us the way we are? If person A chooses God and person B rejects Him, is it because of their differing environments or because of the way they are? And if it is the way they are, how is God not responsible for creating them that way? You wrote,. Because there is no person to know anything about, just as you said. That seems plainly absurd to me.

If God could know such a thing it would only be possible within the framework of determinism where God could know what such a person would choose simply because God would know what He would cause the person to choose. But the Arminian is operating from the perspective of freedom, and not determinism. For that reason, the objection, based on the presupposition of determinism, cannot succeed. It is simply question begging.

Also, if God did foreknow what a person would freely choose and then not create that person based on that knowledge, God would falsify His own foreknowledge by not creating that person. God would essentially make Himself wrong by making something He foreknew happening as not happening, or making a person He foreknew as existing, never to exist.

Do you see the problem? For a multitude of reasons. No one is denying that we make choices for reasons or in accordance with motives. Arminians only deny that such things irresistibly cause our decisions. When we choose in accordance with a motive, or for a reason, we do so freely, rather than by necessity.

The free agent weighs the motives and chooses accordingly. Motives do not irresistibly dictate choices. Influences are factors, but they are not irresistible factors. That is all the Arminian is saying. Yes, it is the God given alternative power of the will that is in us. We are that way because God created us with the power to make free unnecessitated choices.

It was His good pleasure and sovereign right to do so. Ultimately, neither. Those things factor in to our choices, but they do not irresistibly cause us to choose a certain way. The reason for the choice is ultimately the agent himself who freely decides what he or she will do and why he or she will do it, in accordance with the God given power of free will. You would probably do well to read this series by J. Two comments, or questions.

First, I was thinking about the analogy that I have heard Calvinists use about free choice. Then that is likened to the choice to choose God. What occurred to me is that I have never seen anything in Scripture that shows God holding me accountable for being 8 ft.

In fact, every analogy used for this, can be shown to show that God does not hold us accountable for things that are not in our control at all. Also, I was thinking of the passage of Scripture where Jesus says that all men have been given a measure of faith.

I think this post will answer your question about God holding us accountable for our choices and the nature of choices in general:. As for the measure of faith, I believe that is Paul who said that and not Jesus I do not have a reference handy. That passage is more in the context of believers and does not seem to be addressing God giving all men the ability to believe the gospel. However, there are plenty of passages that do speak to God giving all people such an ability when confronted with the gospel as well as a general grace that leads all people to the point where they can make that choice.

Thanks Ben! That was really helpful. I was thinking as well, that being able to imagine something, is in itself a choice of sorts. He needs to understand what God says about him, and his sin. Back to the choice to be 8 ft tall. If He said you can be 8 ft tall if you trust me to grow you that tall, then it comes back to faith. I hope that made sense. My name is Drew. This becomes even harder to deal with when the opposing party has very reasonable answers to counter ones arguments.

This troubles me deeply when I actually think about it. How could God be like that? That seems utterly cruel and vindictive to me. But sometimes I wonder if that is true even if I would hate that and eventually find God unworthy of worship. I understand that there are other factors that play an important role in how we come to believe things. My cousin might be one of them. He is leaning toward an open agnosticism right now and has told me on numerous occasions that he would love to come back to faith in God if he was so persuaded.

He is open. This is heart renching for me. My cousin is brilliant and looks at the same evidence I do, yet he comes to some radically different views to the point that if he comes back to God, his faith will look little to nothing like he grew up believing. Why do some long to believe but seem always just out of reach? Still, I wanted to briefly address your questions. I think that the fact that people come to different opinions regarding Scripture and interpretation lends strong support to Arminianism.

If it is true that God has given us a measure of free will and has made it possible for us to resist His drawing and leading in a variety of areas, then it makes a lot of sense why people disagree. While the Spirit is leading all Christians into His truth, it is possible for the believer to resist that leading.

Why do people resist that leading? For a variety of reasons. Why do some people desire to believe but ultimately resist? But imagine if Calvinism was true. How then would we explain such things? God would have decreed everything that everyone will ever think or decide. It would be a case of God causing all that confusion by way or an irresistible eternal decree. Why does the Calvinist disagree with the Arminian?

Because God decreed it. Why are you so confused about these things? Because God decreed it, even though the Bible says that God is not the author of confusion. Much more could be said, but hopefully this will help you see why it seems that Arminian theology makes far better sense of what we read in Scripture and experience in our daily life than Calvinism does.

For those who are resisting but seem to have some desire for faith, I recommend that you pray hard for them. God is personal and desires for us to be a part of the process of bringing people to Him. Your prayers could eventually make the difference. I truly desired to have a permanent intimate relationship with her. But more than that, I desired for that relationship to be based on her willingly desiring the same.

I think it is the same with God, and for that reason He does not work irresistibly to bring us to faith, nor does He cause us to love Him. Also, I do fear that many walk away from the faith because they have become convinced of Calvinism. Eventually, the logical implications may drive some people away from God. Also, the obvious contradictions inherent in Calvinist theology may lead people to abandon Christianity since they have come to equivocate Calvinism with true Christianity , because they come to find and admit that Calvinism is incoherent, giving them good reason to walk away.

Thankfully, many Calvinists find ways to ignore these problems and remain faithful. Greetings, brother. You know, I was pondering just yesterday a typical Calvinist challenge to the Arminian idea of libertarian free will which goes a bit like this:. After that sermon we find that:. But even if we assume so for the sake of argumentation; 2 The argument is circular, because what the Calvinist puts forth with one hand, they draw away with the other.

Theyassert that this is synonomous with a meritrorious work. Doubtless you have been challenged with the scripture of Ephesians , which says,. Let me use an illustration of the importanceof this. Well the feminine one of course! The same goes for ancient Greek, however, this is exactly the error Calvinists make with Ephesians This cannot be. Makes perfect sense, right? We actually end up with a bigger problem anyway, for it would say:. See for example the entire book of Galatians!

The simple answer is that they free-willingly chose to or not to. God created ex nihilio from nothing —is this arbitrary? God has free-will, and He makes choices even sovereign choices according to Calvinists which are ex nihilio—forced or compelled from nothing other than His will alone. Were not human beings given the gift of self-determination in the Garden, just as God had within His own being?

Did not human beings choose to disobey? Is not every human heart desperately wicked and yet the Spirit of God convicts the heart of each one today calling all men everywhere into repentance and loving, lasting relationship with Jesus Christ Acts b? If so, then it is inexplicable as to why the human being should not be able to make a free will decision for or rejection of Christ ex nihilio! This is where I believe the supernatural, mysterious, spiritual aspect of the created order comes into play.

To deny this possibility, the Calvinst must assert that the human will and the image of God itself is completely marred as if to not exist before sovereign, irresistible regeneration. That is what prevenient grace is all about.

It is te primary work of God in the heart to draw us lovingly to Himself. God is still absolutely sovereign in this sense: He has decided that it is through faith in Jesus Christ alone that we shall be reunited to Him in relationship and cleansed from sin by His blood only to be forgiven.

God has also sovereignly decided to reveal this absolute truth through His inspired word, the Bible, alone, not in the religious tradtions of men. The ultimate expression of the Sovereignty of God is not found in doctrines of the TULIP, but in the very conditons of salvation itself, and in the delcaration of judgement upon those wicked men and women who refuse to meet thee conditions God has placed down.

Why does one accept and the other reject? He makes a mystical ex nihilio decision for his Creator at the loving call of Almighty God. It is a matter of love and of relationship between a loving Heavenly Father and His prodigal sons and daughters. Therefore, brother Drew, we can have confidence that at long as our friends and family draw breath, they CAN be saved. The offer is REAL.

You can tell them that. In case of your cousin, I know how you feel and so does the Apostle Paul see Romans Your godly concern shows the heart of Jesus Matthew I recommend Ravi Zacharias, a world-known Christian philosopher who has spoken in over fifty countries worldwide. I also recommend Dr William Lane Craig, Christian philosopher of science, arguably one of the best speakers today. Lee Strobel found out this very thing after two years of vigorous research into biblical credibility as an Atheistic journalist for the Chicago Tribune.

He is now one of the most renowned evangelican Christian apologetical speakers today. You must not be dismissive of existential problems, as some people are. Learning apologetics from people such as those mentioned above will help you to address such issues. Most of all though, pray. I recommend John. Be patient and kind, for God will be calling them through your small works of kindness and endurance.

It will take time, but wait on the LORD. Thanks for your reply. I appreciate you taking the time to write out such a thoughtful response. Concerning the sources you mentioned above, my cousin used to have and read many of their works. He does no longer at least when it comes to traditional understandings of theodicy, Scripture etc..

I too am familiar with Ravi, Craig, and Strobel and used to appeal to a lot of their work. I still do find some of their material stimulating and helpful, but not as much as I used to when I first started studying apologetics. I guess the heart-renching aspect is that my cousin was once a strong believer, but has struggled with many intellectual problems with Christian theism.

I can sympathize with him to a certain extent. Sometimes its the KINDS of questions that are asked of traditional belief that makes me have to rethink some things. My cousin was a biblical studies major trained in both Hebrew and Greek and now has a Masters in Biblical Studies from Emory University.

He is an open agnostic now. We all have to be honest with ourselves to the best of our ability. I just wonder why my cousin feels self-honestly leads him his position. He genuinely believes he is being honest with himself, no matter what the consequences. Are we only interested in the pursuit of truth if it leads to or reinforces what we already believe?

That is an important question and one I know my cousin has taken very seriously. Granted, I do not know his heart, but outside appearances do not seem to be much different. Anyway…thanks for caring and responding. If God has from eternity know who would go to hell and ho would be saved, yet he still created the men who he knew would go to hell, did not God seal their fate by His own foreknowledge of their damnation?

God made them knowing they would perish in eternal hell fires. Hi there, I just have a couple of questions regarding the Calvinistic doctrine of Unconditional Election. Not q. Therefore, not p. My reasoning was as follows:. The Doctrine of Election concerns those who are predestined to salvation; the Doctrine of Reprobation concerns those who are predestined to Hell.

The high privileges and glorious destiny of the former are not shared with the latter…Those who hold the doctrine of Election but deny that of Reprobation can lay but little claim to consistency. To affirm the former while denying the latter makes the decree of predestination an illogical and lop-sided decree. The creed which states the former but denies the latter will resemble a wounded eagle attempting to fly with but one wing. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestined to life or to death.

The doctrine that teaches that God, for His own good pleasure, predestined some individuals to eternal damnation in the fires of Hell. In determining the truth of this doctrine, it first needs to be established whether God can or cannot lie:. Premise 1: By nature, God is a God of truth Deut. Premise 2: By nature, God cannot deny Himself 2 Tim. Premise 3: Lying is contrary to truth. Now that it has been established that God cannot lie, it can be established that God cannot predestine anyone to Hell for His own good pleasure:.

Premise 1: By nature, God has no pleasure in the death of people, even the wicked Ezek. Remember: God cannot lie — therefore, when He says that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, He means it! Premise 2: For God to unconditionally predestine some people to Hell for His own good pleasure requires God to take pleasure in the death of people.

Premise 3: For God to take pleasure in the death of anyone, He would have to act contrary to His own nature. Premise 4: God cannot act contrary to His own nature Num. Premise 1: If the Calvinistic doctrine of election is true, then the Calvinistic doctrine of reprobation is true. My first question is: am I misrepresenting Calvinism in any way, shape, or form? And my second question is: is my reasoning sound? Or in other words, have I made any errors in reasoning?

I do not have time to review this argument right now, though I promise to get to it eventually. Maybe JC would like to comment on it as well. The name comes from my basic feeling that the Synod of Dort where Arminianism was condemned as heretical by a bunch of Calvinists was much like a kangaroo court hence- kangaroodort , and really irrelevant to the question of which view should be considered orthodox since many Calvinists point to the synod of Dort as some sort of evidence that Arminianism is unorthodox.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. May God continue to bless your labors. Because of Jesus, Charlie. If you want to get to the origin you could go with the Opinions of the Remonstrants, or something like that. There are Arminian books listed at my site as well as many more resources at the SEA site that might help.

It is Wesleyan-Arminian. God knows how the individual would have decided and thus judges accordingly -or- b. With a. I understand that God not only knows what our ultimate choices would be, but also all of the possible choices. Is this where this theory comes into play—that God knows how an individual would have decided? Why allow sin to enter our nature through Adam in the first place? For instance, why does God unleash Satan at the end of the Millennium?

With b. I think that perhaps this was part of Andrea Yates feelings as she drowned her own children. Neither of these points are as plausible as the others listed above in my mind. My question: Possibility b. I have very little time at the computer these days. I will give you a short take and if there is something more you need, let me know and I will try to get to it when I get the chance.

The nature of your questions is mostly speculative. The Bible just does not address much of what you want to know. I do think the Bible plainly teaches that we are free moral beings that God holds accountable for our choices. I also believe that the Bible makes it clear that God only holds those accountable for their actions that can properly be called to account, in accordance with His wisdom and justice, etc.

So I agree with you that God does not hold small children or certain mentally challenged individuals accountable. Still, life is precious and man never has the right to end another life. Therefore, regardless of what we may think, God knows what He is doing and it is only up to Him to decide what is best for one of His creatures with regards to whether they should continue living or not.

We are not in a place to make those decisions for God. This is why we need Christ and this is why God ultimately judges His creatures based on their response to His grace, which unless continually resisted, will lead the person to the remedy Christ.

This is why we are ultimately judged for rejecting Christ. I hope that helps. If the child dies while in the state of innocence, then solely by the grace of God, that child is saved. These verses seem to indicate that when a person does not have the mental or moral capacity to actually make a choice, God will be gracious and save that person.

It must be remembered that these children will not be saved because they have some right to salvation — no one has such a right. God is a gracious God, and He will save those who die before they have the mental and moral capacity to make a choice. Here is my question. This has to do more with free will and whether God controls everything. My arguement is with a hyper-calvinist.

This was his question to me…. What about King Saul? To say that God is not in charge of certain areas means they are outside of his control. If God in His sovereignty decides to do nothing, that decision is itself an exercise of His sovereign control. This is a false dilemma. As far as I know, no Arminian claims that God is not in charge of certain areas.

The issue between Arminians and Calvinists is not whether God is sovereign in everything or not, but rather, the issue revolves around the question of how God exercises His sovereignty. To the Calvinist, God exercises meticulous control; He causes all things. To the Arminian, God can, and occasionally does, exercise meticulous control, but the way He normally deals with men is by allowing them to make their own decisions, which are free from necessity.

Do some Christians believe God first regenerates you and then you are still able to reject or accept Christ? Or does regeneration mean you will automatically accept Christ? I am confused. They believe that regeneration causes faith in Christ. Not only is this unbiblical in my opinion but leads one to wonder why regeneration should guarantee a faith response.

That is a question that I have never seen a Calvinist grapple with. Maybe I should pose the question in a post and see what responses we get. Some Calvinists are speculative in saying that one may be regenerated for quite some time before coming to faith. Some have said that there may be people who are born regenerated.

Recently, I read a Calvinist on the internet speculate that some might die in a regenerated state without having come to saving faith. This seemed to be an attempt to give hope to people who had lost unbelieving loved ones in that they may be saved without them knowing it not sure if this view means that such people will come to faith after death, or are just saved apart from faith simply because they were regenerated.

Ben — I am wondering if you can provide, or point me to, an Arminian exegesis of 2 Tim. This scripture is often used by Calvinists as a counter to 1 Tim. I am looking for a good Arminian analysis here. Thank you. The technique Paul advocates seems to be tailored towards reaching these specific individuals.

Such people would likely respond to a strong rebuke with great resistance, but it may be that if they are approached in a gentle, careful and loving manner, that they will let down their guard long enough to actually consider a different view and possibly receive the saving instruction that they need much like the old adage of catching more flies with honey than with vinegar- a lesson we would all do well to remember. The teachings of these passages are perfectly harmonious.

Do Arminians generally accept the idea that while God is over all, He has ordained specific jurisdictions for government a civil government sphere, a family government sphere, and a church government sphere? I read a lot of information about this in Calvinist circles, but wondered if this idea is accepted as a whole in larger segments of Christianity as well.

Personally, I find it difficult to separate any laws as stated in the O. I prefer to look at the principle behind the law and reason from there, applying it to modern-day life. I do believe that God delegates authority if that is what you are asking. I think that is rather standard thinking in all circles of Christianity and has tremendous Biblical support. This began with God giving Adam, and by extension, all of mankind, dominion over the earth in Genesis.

I do not agree with theonomy. I think it is very problematic. I do think the ceremonial law has reached its fulfillment in Christ. The moral law remains the same, but now finds its fulfillment in the context of a love relationship with the Messiah, through whom we are empowered by His Spirit to obey the law and please God. I do not think that civil penalties attached to moral laws for the nation of Israel carry over to the new covenant.

They were for the nation of Israel alone for specific reasons that applied only to Israel under that covenant. However, I hope that answers your question in general. I think your last sentence sums things up well. For instance, they point to Ephesians , Psalm , and Deut. The civil sphere is to protect the innocent by punishing evil Romans 13 and Genesis All 3 of these spheres are under God, yet God has separated them from one another for specific purposes.

Think of 1 Sam. When God is removed from any subject history, math, science, etc. Many fine theological concepts have come from the Calvinist camp that are useful to other groups of Christians. Likewise, I think many Arminians would agree with you that church, state, and family are divinely-ordained spheres of government and that certain of their functions should not overlap — e. For example, employees are to some degree governed by their employers, and slaves by their masters leaving aside the thorny question of the precise biblical position on slavery.

Furthermore, though Calvinists are the most vocal homeschool advocates, many Arminians advocate homeschooling as well. I have known some personally. But we tend to be less dogmatic about it. Political theology is not discussed as frequently in Arminian circles, as Arminians are generally less politically savvy than Calvinists. I think this can be chalked up to the fact that postmillennialism is very popular among Calvinists, and that the Calvinistic understanding of the New Covenant is friendlier to theonomic ideas.

Thank you for your comments, Dave. I will look into your reading suggestions. I happen to be a promoter of homeschooling as I am a homeschooling mom myself. Mathematics: Is God Silent? When one religion is removed from a classroom, another worldview such as socialism or humanism inevitable takes its place. Hey, I just found your site. What a great resource! Do you explain this by saying they are those who have been effectively called by their belief v God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe?

Check out the following post. I think the articles linked to there will help you with your question. Has our free will been clouded that much more because of the generations upon generations of sinners and thus, sin in the world before us? I see this played out practiacally…. Unborn babies die in the womb even before given the opportunity to sin; death is one of the effects of the sin in the garden.

Are my thoughts leading dangerously into semipelagianism territory? I am not sure I am fully understanding your question. Could you be more specific as to what you want me to address? Adam and Eve were not predisposed to sin, yet they easily sinned on their own without having inherited such a nature. I do think we can draw the conclusion of a corrupt nature from experience as you point out, but Scripture does seem to strongly support the idea of a corrupt fallen nature that tends towards sin.

Portions of Romans chapters 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 are a good place to start. I was doing some studying in Hebrews, and I hit what appears to be a snag, and wanted your insight. In Hebrews we see the following. See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected.

The snag I hit is when I went to Genesis to reference this event, i. Is there a mistake in the Bible? It has reference to Esau trying to get Isaac to give him the blessing after the blessing had already been given to Jacob. Oh, the connection is simply that Esau sold and despised his birthright when he sold it to Jacob for a bowl of soup. Later, as the writer notes, he still tried to receive the blessing, but the blessing had already been given to Jacob.

I am young and new to the concept of predestination and am having trouble with it. I cant accept that God would create a being destined for hell, or that He would choose some for salvation and not others when their choices and actions are his doing, as expressed by Calvinism.

But I accept that in his sovereignty He can reject anyone and save anyone as He so wills. I believe he hates sinners as well. I believe that it was only the blessing that i am surrounded by christian friends that helped me through. If I was told that God only loves some and chooses to leave others to eternal damnation upon creation, and then shown albeit out of context , where it was in the bible a year ago, when my faith was much younger, I highly doubt that I would have kept faith.

After much research and digging my bible, I believe God predestined the followers of Christ, not the individual, to receive salvation through his son. A choice is not a work. Did God create Pharaoh to display his wrath? Was there hope for Pharaoh. I like to think that there was.

The corollary being that God looks upon a completely deprived world, where all are sinners, and for some reason picks and chooses who will be saved, and therefore who will be left for hell. Currently I think that God presents the gift of faith to all but not all receive it. I do not believe that some are incapable of receiving it, but that in our sin some refuse it.

But i cant elaborate on how one would be moved to accept faith without God intervening in their hearts? I believe Satan corrupted his creation, but this just creates more questions, like: Why did God allow this? Why did god create Satan knowing he would rebel and corrupt man, dooming some of the children God loves so much to an eternity in hell? May God bless you all, Aaron. I have struggled with that idea of predestination as well. On the one hand, I believe that the Calvinistic idea of God choosing people to go to hell is offensive and seems cruel, but on the other hand, even as an Arminian, we still have the basic problem of God choosing to allow people to be born when He knows they will refuse to accept Jesus, and they will go to hell.

If we were to simply be born into sin, and have no hope of ever accepting Jesus or being saved, then that makes God the bad guy, and the author of sin. Arminianism makes man the bad guy, Calvinism makes God the bad guy. You mentioned that we can only make the choice to be saved if God calls us, and that is true. The Bible tells us plainly that the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, not the men themselves.

The thing to remember is that when someone willfully stands in rebellion and sin, they are placing themselves in what God hates, so in essence He hates them; not the people themselves, but their attitude and lack of humility. God allowed Satan to sin for the same reason He allowed us to sin, because He wants beings to worship and serve Him willingly, so without the possibility of rebellion, true worship is not possible. Oh, and one other thing I forgot to mention.

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